Thought experiment: spirit of a BMW 2002 (2024)

Edit: posted in the wrong section!! Meant to put this in general - mods if you could move it would be appreciated, thank you!

Hi folks, I thought I'd come to the hive-mind with a thought experiment while I'm idle on a Sunday afternoon:

A BMW 2002 has been on my dream car bucket list for a long, long time, but with two kids in daycare I'm not sure if I'll be able to swing the expense or the time commitment that a relatively collectible ~50 year old car demands. So while I keep my fingers crossed for a 2002 that pops up for sale locally by someone who hasn't checked prices on the internet in the past decade I've been trying to think of an alternative fun car that might scratch the itch. Here are some basic guidelines I've had in mind:

1. Lightweight: ideally less than ~2,600lbs or so. An arbitrary number, I know, but I've always found that the cars I've enjoyed the most are light even if they're "underpowered."

2. Simple: the simpler the better.

3. Right now I like the thought of a four seater so the whole family can go out together for a trip to one of the million apple orchards or creemee stands we have within an hour or so.

4. Hoping to spend less than $15k. As always, the lower the better.

If I decide that a 2 seater would be acceptable then a Miata is probably the right answer. And I've been following along with a few of the 128i threads on here with great interest, but ideally I'd like something older/simpler/lighter. So, any recommendations or suggestions for something that embodies the spirit of a 2002 that will make me say "oh, duh, why didn't I think of that?"

I'd spend half the amount and get a rust free Miata. Spend time driving and NOT fixing rust. (says the guy working on a 240Z with rust)

Guy near me asking $10,000 for a 2002 and I see hints of rust?

ojannen HalfDork
8/25/24 3:31 p.m.

The most modern version of the 2002 is the 318ti. You can get to 2600lbs with a little effort. It is the final evolution of the BMW N/A 4 with semi trailing rear suspension. It is slow but it is fun when it comes on cam around 3500rpms. I like e30s too but the 10 year newer AC and safety systems are worth it for small kids. As a bonus, the rear legroom is great and the hatch makes loading a stroller reasonable.

These days, the first gen BRZ scratches the same itch. You can get them in budget. Spend some money on headers to get rid of the torque dip and they are hard to fault.

An inexpensive Miata is a very strong contender (and realistically what will likely happen) once I reconcile my dreams with my reality. And I do have a soft spot for NBs.

The 318ti is a great recommendation that I hadn't considered at all. Totally forgot those existed. They are pretty uncommon around here, but I can keep an eye out. I recall hating the look of them when they came out, but thier quirkiness has grown on me over the years.

I had the BRZ thought as well and I will certainly test drive one when I can. I had the opportunity to sit in one years ago and I really enjoyed the stock seats.

4 Doors and Wagons are still (kinda) in reach

I am not opposed to the square taillight 2002s (in fact, I may have a slight preference for them, shhh...). So 1976 sounds lovely.

A 510 sedan is a good call too - I had a lowered 620 pickup for a while that I enjoyed before it rusted into nothing.

If you don't want the old car time commitment of a 2002, I can't see how a 510 would be any better. They're just as old.

I'd suggest looking at about 20-25 years old instead. And with your requirements, I'd be looking at a Civic - one of the double wishbone cars, which means 1999 to meet my arbitrary year cutoff :) The coupe in particular because it was a stylish little thing. They meet your weight requirement both in fact and in feel. Lots of them are hotrodded, just like the 2002 and the 510.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/365072021493

(while looking this up I checked the 1993 Civic CX hatch I used to own - under 2100 lbs! And I didn't realize that Canadian car came with a hotter engine than the US equivalent)

The GRM guys came through. I think this might tick every box. Buy it and drive it.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/you-need-this-a-like-new-sec/272925/page1/

Thread moved, and my 2c:

If you want something from BMW with room for four and a bit of a classic vibe, E36-chassis convertible? My parents had one. Fun car. Tiny back seat but that might be okay for you. It’s a little heavier than you’d like but doesn’t feel big and heavy, especially by today’s standards.

Don’t try to make it an M3. Just enjoy it as a sporty cruiser. Make memories with the entire family.

02Pilot PowerDork
8/26/24 3:25 p.m.

As I happen to own a 2002, a 128i, and a Miata, I'll throw in my opinions. The 2002 and the Miata (mine is an ND RF) definitely feel light. They handle differently, as you would expect, but they share the fun-to-toss-around feel that lightness provides. The 128i shares the idea of the 2002 - a four-seat, sporty car that manages to be both practical and fun - but not the character. The 128i is way more buttoned down, with high limits and a very modern feel. It can be provoked into moving around, but it's clearly designed for the business of driving, not the joy of driving. It's a great modern interpretation of the 2002, but it doesn't drive like a 2002.

Now, I should mention that all of my cars are modified, so my examples are not necessarily 100% representative of what you might encounter. The Miata has big sway bars adjusted to full stiff, and it still rolls more than either of the other cars. The 128i has an M3/1M suspension, Konis, and Eibachs; it's firm, well-controlled, and borderline harsh on rough roads. The 2002 has everything: full poly suspension, springs, Bilsteins, big bars, chassis braces, big brakes, built motor with dual Webers and 300 Motorsport cam, etc. (I used to autox it a lot, which is when I did most of the mods); for all of that, it still drives like a 2002, just with higher performance.

If you can find a good 318ti that still has the 4cyl and a manual, that's going to be your closest, more modern, analog. A Miata would certainly be the easy option for driving performance, but obviously falls short on practicality. I haven't driven an FRS/BRZ - it's a great concept, but I couldn't get past the Subaru engine - so I don't know if the handling feels more controlled modern or lively classic, but it certainly would be a practical four-seat option.

mtn MegaDork
8/26/24 4:02 p.m.

BMW 318is or 318ic for convertible flavor.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/1991-bmw-318is/

NOHOME MegaDork
8/26/24 5:44 p.m.

FRS/BRZ is the sweet spot for weight and even occasional back seat passengers. I've had 5 humans in mine including the driver. Three is easy because the person in back can sitsideways. Cargo room is plentiful compared to the Miata. Probably the same performance-wise. Withinbudget.

The chassis is what makes it fun, not necessesrily the engine, but then I can't think of anything that I have asked the engine to do that it could not. So other than drag racing, an awesome car.

calteg UltraDork
8/26/24 6:00 p.m.

You should be able to get a decent 2002 in that price range if you are willing to travel/ship.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/d/redwood-city-1976-bmw-2002/7770544736.html

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/twain-harte-1975-bmw-2002-coupe/7770072079.html

I feel like 2002 drivers not perfect car prices have softened in NorCal

You should be able to get a decent 2002 in that price range if you are willing to travel/ship.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/d/redwood-city-1976-bmw-2002/7770544736.html

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/twain-harte-1975-bmw-2002-coupe/7770072079.html

I feel like 2002 drivers not perfect car prices have softened in NorCal

CyberEric SuperDork
8/26/24 10:30 p.m.

Yeah I'd be looking for something like that Integra, unless you live in an areawhere people steal them. Which is most places. Dang.

And what about a BG Mazda Protege or Ford Econobox GT or ZX2? Light, fun chassis. Cheap. If you can find a later MP3 or MazdaSpeed Protege, that could be cool. I drove a ZX2 once and could not believe how fun it was. Way more fun than the beat to death 2002s I have driven.

Skinny tires, good steering feel, hellacious lift off oversteer, floor mounted pedals, and a nice driving position.

The answer is short wheelbase 911?

ddavidv UltimaDork
8/27/24 6:50 a.m.

The Datsun 510 is basically a copy of the 2002 but made of metal that rusts faster than the German steel. They simply don't exist here in the east.

Fun Fact: the square taillamp 2002 can easily be converted to round. The quarter panel is cut for a round lamp; you just have to make a filler for the rear body panel in the same half-moon shape. We did it on our $2002 Challenge car.

Having worked on/rebuilt two 2002s...meh. I think the legend is better than the reality. I would much rather have an E30 any day, but bias because I raced one for a few years and found it to be one of the easiest cars to drive 'flat out' and at the limit with little drama.

Probably as hard to find as a 510 these days, I owned several 124 coupes that were better than the sum of their parts.

For something more modern, but probably still hard to find, what about the old Sentra SE-R?

How about a fiesta ST? I see them locally for around 12-14k. Not sure it's a worthy 2002 replacement, but it seems to check a lot of boxes. Here's an example of what I'm typically seeing.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1562093638063686/?mibextid=6ojiHh

CyberEric SuperDork
8/27/24 12:35 p.m.

Oh yeah, the SE-R is another good option. Though it's quiteold too and getting hard to find, but it checks all the boxes. I have never driven one, but I want to.

I echo ddavidv's comments, the 2002 did not live up to the hype in the one I drove. Felt more like an old Beetle than a performance car to me. I still like them, tho.

I am really sad that no one builds a light RWD sedan-ish car anymore. I can't even think of the last sub 3k lb version of this type of car...I guess it must be the E36 325i.

Can you imagine if someone offered a new ~2600 lb, 200ish hp, RWD sedan? I'd be all over it!

CyberEric said:

Can you imagine if someone offered a new ~2600 lb, 200ish hp, RWD sedan? I'd be all over it!

And it's manual. And it's under 20k. That market is limited to exactly the number of people on this forum.